Subject: Mail digest
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:02:58 +0200 (METDST)

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 15:55:55 -0500

[email protected] wrote:

> Hey, of course it's basically illegal, but the main point made by most
> of the members was that it's poor to pick out someone and threat them.
> If anyone wanted to pursue this kind of 'theft', every owner of every
> page with any kind of copyrighted material should be sued, don't you
> think? And since that will most likely never happen, yes, it IS ok.
> That's kinda internet law :)
>
> Bye, Nadine <3
>
>
I prefer to believe BelleSoCal's assertion that everything is on the up and
up. And no, I do not agree with you at all. Sorry.

--
Dianne Smith, CJE
Bear Facts adviser
Alief Hastings High School
4410 Cook Road
Houston, TX 77072
(281)498-8110, ext. 2461

Bear Facts online edition: http://www.highwired.com/Alief/bearfacts

For Journalism Teachers Only: http://jteacher.com

Texas Association of Journalism Educators: http://members.xoom.com/TAJE

Online Classroom: http://www.highwired.com/Alief/JIsmith

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:17:44 -0600 (CST)
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected] (danascx)
Comments: Originally Cc: [email protected]
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MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
X-Mailer: Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44

*Most* copyright holders do not mind, as it is free advertising for them
(or for their show, or book, or album, or whatever). As long as the site
is *positive,* why should they object to free advertising? The copyright
is to protect the owner/creator so that someone doesn't come along and
claim it as their own and make money from it. A website doesn't do that.
I've been in the fandom business since '87, writing/editing/publishing
fanzines based on tv series, which is basically illegal and breaking all
kinds of copyright laws, but the fanzine business has never been closed
down because of that!  It's still free advertising, and zines certainly
keep a show alive after it's been cancelled. And if a copyright holder
does decide to stop it, all they have to do is tell someone to stop
doing it ("cease and desist order"). No one is going to be dragged off
to court and sued for millions of dollars, unless they don't stop it
*after* being told to. Yeah, I guess it does all come down to "everyone
does it," but that doesn't seem to be such a terrible problem. *Most*
copyright holders allow it to happen, for whatever reason, mostly the
free publicity.

Nanci

With a handful of keys and a song to sing, now how could you ask for
more? -- Mandy

*Clowns don't belong in a hospital!*
*Neither do children.* -- Dr. Jeffrey Geiger


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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 17:37:43 -0600
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Reply-To: "Dianne Smith" 
Comments: Originally To: , 
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	charset="iso-8859-1"
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Most? Do you have statistics to prove this?
-----
Dianne Smith, CJE
Bear Facts adviser
Alief Hastings High School
4410 Cook Road
Houston, TX 77072
281-498-8110, ext. 2461

Bear Facts online edition:
http://www.highwired.net/Alief/bearfacts

For Journalism Teachers Only:
http://jteacher.com

Texas Association of Journalism Educators
http://members.xoom.com/TAJE

Online Classroom
http://www.highwired.com/Alief/JIsmith

----
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
To: [email protected] 
Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: copyright


*Most* copyright holders do not mind, as it is free advertising for them
(or for their show, or book, or album, or whatever). As long as the site
is *positive,* why should they object to free advertising? The copyright
is to protect the owner/creator so that someone doesn't come along and
claim it as their own and make money from it. A website doesn't do that.
I've been in the fandom business since '87, writing/editing/publishing
fanzines based on tv series, which is basically illegal and breaking all
kinds of copyright laws, but the fanzine business has never been closed
down because of that!  It's still free advertising, and zines certainly
keep a show alive after it's been cancelled. And if a copyright holder
does decide to stop it, all they have to do is tell someone to stop
doing it ("cease and desist order"). No one is going to be dragged off
to court and sued for millions of dollars, unless they don't stop it
*after* being told to. Yeah, I guess it does all come down to "everyone
does it," but that doesn't seem to be such a terrible problem. *Most*
copyright holders allow it to happen, for whatever reason, mostly the
free publicity.

Nanci

With a handful of keys and a song to sing, now how could you ask for
more? -- Mandy

*Clowns don't belong in a hospital!*
*Neither do children.* -- Dr. Jeffrey Geiger




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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:02:46 EST
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected], [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)

Isn't also fair to say that even Mandy Patinkin has seen the sight??
Michelle<------yawning over this trivia  


In a message dated 11/30/99 4:41:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[email protected] writes:

> Subj:  Re: copyright
>  Date:    11/30/99 4:41:05 PM Eastern Standard Time
>  From:    [email protected]
>  Sender:  [email protected]
>  To:  [email protected]
>  
>  In a message dated 11/30/99 12:38:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
>  [email protected] writes:
>  
>  >> I have no idea whether or not phantm is using copyrighted material 
> without 
>  permission, but I find it very interesting that the attitude that has been 
>  voiced is that "everyone does it" so it is ok. I hope by the time we finish 
>  with this particular unit none of my students will feel that way. >>
>  
>  Until and unless someone proves me wrong definitively, I shall assume (
> having 
>  known the gifted PhantmPnts for some years now) that TT's website is not 
> only 
>  well within the law but is also ethically and responsibly maintained.
>  
>  Should any of us assert otherwise without knowing all the facts, there's 
>  where the shame lies.
>  
>  Bev

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:04:46 -0600 (CST)
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected] (Dianne Smith)
Comments: Originally Cc: [email protected]
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit
MIME-Version: 1.0 (WebTV)
X-Mailer: Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44

<>

No. But considering the thousands (if not millions?) of websites there
are, I think that backs up my statement without the actual numbers. If
*most* copyright holders objected, then there wouldn't be all those
websites, would there?  Everyone would be sent "cease and desist" orders
and all those sites wouldn't be there anymore. The fact that *most* of
them are still in existence says a lot about how the copyright holders
feel. They love free publicity!

Nanci

With a handful of keys and a song to sing, now how could you ask for
more? -- Mandy

*Clowns don't belong in a hospital!*
*Neither do children.* -- Dr. Jeffrey Geiger


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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:13:07 -0600
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Reply-To: "Dianne Smith" 
Comments: Originally To: 
Comments: Originally Cc: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)

My guess is it would depend on if someone felt they were losing money from
the use of copyrighted materials. I know of a couple of photographers who
would call their lawyers to file suit before they'd notify someone who was
violating their copyrights because they've had to deal with this so much.
Remember, it's not the "star" that owns the copyright...it is the author, or
the photographer, or the poet...in other words, the creator. Of course the
person who the website (or book, or picture, or whatever) is about would
probably love the free publicity....but that person does not own the
copyright. And it is up to the copyright holder to determine how his or her
property is to be used. That's the law, like it or not.
-----
Dianne Smith, CJE
Bear Facts adviser
Alief Hastings High School
4410 Cook Road
Houston, TX 77072
281-498-8110, ext. 2461

Bear Facts online edition:
http://www.highwired.net/Alief/bearfacts

For Journalism Teachers Only:
http://jteacher.com

Texas Association of Journalism Educators
http://members.xoom.com/TAJE

Online Classroom
http://www.highwired.com/Alief/JIsmith

----
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
To: Dianne Smith 
Cc: [email protected] 
Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: copyright


<>

No. But considering the thousands (if not millions?) of websites there
are, I think that backs up my statement without the actual numbers. If
*most* copyright holders objected, then there wouldn't be all those
websites, would there?  Everyone would be sent "cease and desist" orders
and all those sites wouldn't be there anymore. The fact that *most* of
them are still in existence says a lot about how the copyright holders
feel. They love free publicity!

Nanci

With a handful of keys and a song to sing, now how could you ask for
more? -- Mandy

*Clowns don't belong in a hospital!*
*Neither do children.* -- Dr. Jeffrey Geiger




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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:25:33 -0600
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Reply-To: "Dianne Smith" 
Comments: Originally To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
	boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF3B60.4A298F00"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0038_01BF3B60.4A298F00
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
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My guess is it would depend on if someone felt they were losing money from
the use of copyrighted materials. I know of a couple of photographers who
would call their lawyers to file suit before they'd notify someone who was
violating their copyrights because they've had to deal with this so much.
Remember, it's not the "star" that owns the copyright...it is the author, or
the photographer, or the poet...in other words, the creator. Of course the
person who the website (or book, or picture, or whatever) is about would
probably love the free publicity....but that person does not own the
copyright. And it is up to the copyright holder to determine how his or her
property is to be used. That's the law, like it or not.
-----
Dianne Smith, CJE
Bear Facts adviser
Alief Hastings High School
4410 Cook Road
Houston, TX 77072
281-498-8110, ext. 2461

Bear Facts online edition:
http://www.highwired.net/Alief/bearfacts

For Journalism Teachers Only:
http://jteacher.com

Texas Association of Journalism Educators
http://members.xoom.com/TAJE

Online Classroom
http://www.highwired.com/Alief/JIsmith

----
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
To: Dianne Smith 
Cc: [email protected] 
Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: copyright


<>

No. But considering the thousands (if not millions?) of websites there
are, I think that backs up my statement without the actual numbers. If
*most* copyright holders objected, then there wouldn't be all those
websites, would there?  Everyone would be sent "cease and desist" orders
and all those sites wouldn't be there anymore. The fact that *most* of
them are still in existence says a lot about how the copyright holders
feel. They love free publicity!

Nanci

With a handful of keys and a song to sing, now how could you ask for
more? -- Mandy

*Clowns don't belong in a hospital!*
*Neither do children.* -- Dr. Jeffrey=20

----

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:42:01 EST
Errors-to: 
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X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)

In a message dated 11/30/1999 3:38:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[email protected] writes:

> This is a unit
>  that will be coming up in January, so I find the discussion very timely and
>  plan to use some of what has been said to stir up some debate in class.

I assume that you will be getting appropriate permission from the writers of 
the posts before using messages from a private mailing list in your 
classroom, recognizing that they, too, are copyrighted.

Carol P. -----still irritated that a magazine chose to print part of a 
letter I sent them WITHOUT including my name or professional credentials.  
They said that they would never print someone's name without getting explicit 
permission [and claimed to have tried e-mailing me and had the mail bounced 
back].  I found it irresponsible that they used my words, but omitted my name 
(which I HAD specifically included in my e-mail to them) and that they 
further used my own words [which they had carefully NOT included in their 
edited version of my letter) in composing their reply to my comments on their 
inaccurate information in a tax-advice column.   

I realize that by sending them the e-mail I am considered to have given 
permission for its publication, but I would have thought that by including my 
name (WITHOUT a request that it be withheld) I was also giving permission for 
them to use my name and thereby attribute the comments to me.  I don't think 
that sending them an e-mail gave them permission to use my words as their 
own, which they did.  But folks don't seem to recognize that written material 
is copyrighted when written whether or not the writer is a professional 
writer and whether or not copyright notice is given.

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 19:05:35 -0600
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Reply-To: "Dianne Smith" 
Comments: Originally To: , 
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)

No, because I will not be reproducing the emails or using anyone's name or
actual words..I will be using the gist of what is said to start a
discussion. Nice try, though.
-----
Dianne Smith, CJE
Bear Facts adviser
Alief Hastings High School
4410 Cook Road
Houston, TX 77072
281-498-8110, ext. 2461

Bear Facts online edition:
http://www.highwired.net/Alief/bearfacts

For Journalism Teachers Only:
http://jteacher.com

Texas Association of Journalism Educators
http://members.xoom.com/TAJE

Online Classroom
http://www.highwired.com/Alief/JIsmith

----
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
To: [email protected] 
Date: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: copyright


>In a message dated 11/30/1999 3:38:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>[email protected] writes:
>
>> This is a unit
>>  that will be coming up in January, so I find the discussion very timely and
>>  plan to use some of what has been said to stir up some debate in class.
>
>I assume that you will be getting appropriate permission from the writers of
>the posts before using messages from a private mailing list in your
>classroom, recognizing that they, too, are copyrighted.
>
>Carol P.-----still irritated that a magazine chose to print part of a
>letter I sent them WITHOUT including my name or professional credentials.
>They said that they would never print someone's name without getting explicit
>permission [and claimed to have tried e-mailing me and had the mail bounced
>back].  I found it irresponsible that they used my words, but omitted my name
>(which I HAD specifically included in my e-mail to them) and that they
>further used my own words [which they had carefully NOT included in their
>edited version of my letter) in composing their reply to my comments on their
>inaccurate information in a tax-advice column.
>
>I realize that by sending them the e-mail I am considered to have given
>permission for its publication, but I would have thought that by including my
>name (WITHOUT a request that it be withheld) I was also giving permission for
>them to use my name and thereby attribute the comments to me.  I don't think
>that sending them an e-mail gave them permission to use my words as their
>own, which they did.  But folks don't seem to recognize that written material
>is copyrighted when written whether or not the writer is a professional
>writer and whether or not copyright notice is given.
>


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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Happy Birthday!
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:08:55 EST
Errors-to: 
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X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)

My parents called me today to sing, "Happy Mandy's birthday" to me!  I pass 
there wishes along to Mandy and to all of you! :)

Robin

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:20:17 EST
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)

In a message dated 11/30/99 9:11:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[email protected] writes:

> My parents called me today to sing, "Happy Mandy's birthday" to me!  I pass 
>  there wishes along to Mandy and to all of you! :)
>  
Horrors!  I just read this!  Of course I meant "their wishes"!  

Robin ---tired English teacher, who currently teaches math and can, 
therefore, get away with an occasional misspelling

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday!
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:20:34 -0800
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Reply-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.04 (Win16; I) (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

[email protected] wrote:
> 
> My parents called me today to sing, "Happy Mandy's birthday" to me!  I pass
> there wishes along to Mandy and to all of you! :)
> 
> Robin

How cute! My mother (among others) just think Im insane... Laurie

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Cooking Show repeat
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:55:55 EST
Errors-to: 
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X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)

The cooking show with Mandy will be replayed this Saturday at 1 pm pacific 
time. 
Kj 

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Cooking Show repeat
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 20:18:45 -0800
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: 
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)


>The cooking show with Mandy will be replayed this Saturday at 1 pm pacific
>time.
>Kj
>


It is also scheduled at 4 p.m. Pacific Time this Friday (so presumably 7
p.m. ET)

Joanne




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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:19:16 EST
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 38 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)

In a message dated 11/30/1999 8:03:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[email protected] writes:

> I will be using the gist of what is said to start a
>  discussion. Nice try, though.

It wasn't intended as a "try."  You said that you "plan to use some of what 
has been said to stir up some debate in class."  I assumed that you meant the 
words.

Carol P.

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 21:09:09 -0800
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Mime-Version: 1.0
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
X-Mailer: Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44

>In a message dated 11/30/1999 3:38:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>[email protected] writes:
> >
> >> This is a unit that will be coming up in January, so I find the 
>discussion very timely and plan to use some of what has been said to 
>stir up some debate in class.

Come on! It's still Mandy's birthday here and you're just talking 
about moulding young minds.......Carol


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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:50:27 EST
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)

In a message dated 11/30/99 4:14:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[email protected] writes:

< Of course the person who the website (or book, or picture, or whatever) is 
about would probably love the free publicity....but that person does not own 
the copyright. And it is up to the copyright holder to determine how his or 
her property is to be used. That's the law, like it or not. >

I think we all realize that. But Nancy has a point -- it's great free 
publicity, and most holders of such intellectual property not only don't 
mind, they actually encourage fans' use of logos, photos, lyrics, etc. (and 
remember that even though a particular photographer may have taken a 
particular picture, that photographer wouldn't necessarily own the rights to 
the photo, depending on his/her employment contract -- for instance, most AP 
photogs don't own their pictures; the AP does).

I'm only aware of one large, well-known copyright holder that is taking 
action against fan websites, and that's the FOX Broadcasting Network.

[Oh, and would it be *terribly* rude of me to point out the incredibly huge 
grammatical error in the following sentence? "Of course the person who the 
website (or book, or picture, or whatever) is about" -- I mean, since you're 
a teacher and a journalist and obviously know better and more than we 
plebians, maybe I'm wrong. But I *believe* that sentence should read more 
like this: "Of course, the person about whom the website is  
would probably love the free publicity." But that's just me.]

Bev
FEB; XFW#2001; SAA; NRMTPB; SAMC(TINC)
***************************************************************
What if the Hokey Pokey really *is* what it's all about?
***************************************************************

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:31:00 EST
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Windows AOL sub 45 (via Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44)

In a message dated 11/30/99 3:22:17 PM Pacific Standard Time, 
[email protected] writes:

<< And if a copyright holder does decide to stop it, all they have to do is 
tell someone to stop doing it ("cease and desist order"). No one is going to 
be dragged off to court and sued for millions of dollars, unless they don't 
stop it *after* being told to. >>

Actually, a cease and desist order would only be issued *after* someone was 
taken to court. I believe you're talking about what is commonly called a 
"demand letter" (at least around here) -- i.e., a written communique 
demanding that the addressee either (1) do something they haven't been doing 
and should have [such as pay a bill], or (2) stop doing something they 
shouldn't be doing [such as using copyrighted information without permission].

A cease and desist order might also be called a temporary restraining order 
(which might later become a permanent injunction, if it went that far).

Sorry. I just *had* to strut my legal stuff there for a minute. It was a 
rough weekend.

Bev
FEB; XFW#2001; SAA; NRMTPB; SAMC(TINC)
***************************************************************
What if the Hokey Pokey really *is* what it's all about?
***************************************************************

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Spelling schmelling
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:44:28 EST
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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In a message dated 11/24/99 8:54:59 AM Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] 
writes:

<< What Bev was saying was that KJ has her own unique and interesting 
spelling and grammer, and while many people jumped all over her for it early 
on, we have now come to love and enjoy her posts. She has a great sense of 
humor, knows how to laugh at herself, and expresses herself in a way that can 
be quite enjoyable. I don't always agree with her views, but I always get a 
kick out of reading her e-mail. <<

That's *exactly* what I meant, Rene, and I thank you for clarifying my 
thoughts and intent!

>> Your remark about asking the list owner to say something to someone who 
doesn't use correct spelling and grammer, on the other hand, turned me off 
completely. <<

Agreed, 100%. That's *my* job ... and Kendal's 
 
>> We do need to be able to accept people who might have difficulties in 
expressing themselves in writing without errors. I have a particular problem 
with overdoing the spelling/grammer thing, because my youngest son is gifted 
and learning disabled. <<
[...snippage of details in the interest of bandwidth...]

Agreed *again* Rene! Many times I've "called" someone on his/her spelling and 
grammar, but it's usually on someone who has his/her head up his/her butt and 
is thus more deserving (IMHO) of chastisement than one who at least makes an 
effort. Okay, yeah, I'll admit it -- I've even been snarky with someone who 
may or may not have made an effort, but that's usually been when I've been in 
an extremely bad mood and I can't see the effort. I don't usually belabor the 
point, though, figuring if someone is going to post a certain way, that's 
just the way it is, and I have the choice of reading/not reading.

>> Not everyone wants to reread every reply they make to e-mail, not everyone 
has the time to do this. I think people should have the right to take part in 
a mailing list
whether their spelling and grammer are correct or not, as long as their mail 
can be read and understood. Of course, they might be in for some knocking 
about their errors, but people should just take that as a given and ignore 
it. <<

You're reading my mind these days, honey bunch ;-)
 
>> Rene (who has her own pet peeve, people who write in all lower case 
letters, because they are too busy to use the shift key . . .BULLETIN . . .it 
takes way less time than using a (sometimes non-existant) spell checker or 
constant re-reading, and even a third grader can do it!) <<
 
I'll second *that* emotion as well.

Bev
FEB; XFW#2001; SAA; NRMTPB; SAMC(TINC)
***************************************************************
What if the Hokey Pokey really *is* what it's all about?
***************************************************************

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 14:54:17 -0500
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Hi, all.  I have been away from the list for a while, getting it on digest.
It is really not much fun on digest -- the one I get makes you forward each
message on the list to see it.  Anyhow, I returned the other day and find
that we are all discussing copyrights.  Has the topic of the list changed
from Mandy?  I have maybe had 2 dozen messages on copyright....


----- Original Message -----
From: 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: copyright


In a message dated 11/30/99 3:22:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< And if a copyright holder does decide to stop it, all they have to do is
tell someone to stop doing it ("cease and desist order"). No one is going to
be dragged off to court and sued for millions of dollars, unless they don't
stop it *after* being told to. >>

Actually, a cease and desist order would only be issued *after* someone was
taken to court. I believe you're talking about what is commonly called a
"demand letter" (at least around here) -- i.e., a written communique
demanding that the addressee either (1) do something they haven't been doing
and should have [such as pay a bill], or (2) stop doing something they
shouldn't be doing [such as using copyrighted information without
permission].

A cease and desist order might also be called a temporary restraining order
(which might later become a permanent injunction, if it went that far).

Sorry. I just *had* to strut my legal stuff there for a minute. It was a
rough weekend.

Bev
FEB; XFW#2001; SAA; NRMTPB; SAMC(TINC)
***************************************************************
What if the Hokey Pokey really *is* what it's all about?
***************************************************************



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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 14:14:14 -0600
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>>> "Joan Walsky"  12/01/99 01:54PM >>>

>Has the topic of the list changed from Mandy?  I have >maybe had 2 dozen =
messages on copyright....

Yes. You missed the overthrow. Now all posts regarding Mandy must be =
clearly marked "OFF" or you will be expelled from the list.

Dinny Gump <-- sarcastic is as sarcastic does


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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 14:13:17 -0500
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
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All I can say is that most of the people I work with who create intellectual
property are very protective of that property. What I create, whether it is
a news story, feature article, photograph, or whatever is mine, and unless I
sign my ownership away, I have the right to determine how it is used.

Most professional photographers sell their photographs for money. That is
how they make a living. Sometimes they sell the right to the photo for a
one-time only use and they retain the rights to the photo. When someone
takes that photo and uses it without permission, he/she diminishes the value
of the work. I don't think *most* copyright holders take too kindly to that.
Now, if the photographer signs away all rights, and the new owner tells you
that you can use it, you've got every right to do so. If a "star" buys the
rights to all photos and articles about him or her and says "Do whatever you
want with these," then you certainly have that right.

But then I'm speaking from the point of view of someone who works with this
kind of stuff all the time, not a fan. So I could be wrong. ;-)
--
Dianne Smith, CJE
Bear Facts adviser
Alief Hastings High School
4410 Cook Road
Houston, TX 77072
(281)498-8110, ext. 2461

Bear Facts online edition: http://www.highwired.com/Alief/bearfacts

For Journalism Teachers Only: http://jteacher.com

Texas Association of Journalism Educators: http://members.xoom.com/TAJE

Online Classroom: http://www.highwired.com/Alief/JIsmith

----------
>From: 
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: copyright
>Date: Wed, Dec 1, 1999, 14:31
>

> In a message dated 11/30/99 3:22:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
> << And if a copyright holder does decide to stop it, all they have to do is
> tell someone to stop doing it ("cease and desist order"). No one is going to
> be dragged off to court and sued for millions of dollars, unless they don't
> stop it *after* being told to. >>
>
> Actually, a cease and desist order would only be issued *after* someone was
> taken to court. I believe you're talking about what is commonly called a
> "demand letter" (at least around here) -- i.e., a written communique
> demanding that the addressee either (1) do something they haven't been doing
> and should have [such as pay a bill], or (2) stop doing something they
> shouldn't be doing [such as using copyrighted information without permission].
>
> A cease and desist order might also be called a temporary restraining order
> (which might later become a permanent injunction, if it went that far).
>
> Sorry. I just *had* to strut my legal stuff there for a minute. It was a
> rough weekend.
>
> Bev
> FEB; XFW#2001; SAA; NRMTPB; SAMC(TINC)
> ***************************************************************
> What if the Hokey Pokey really *is* what it's all about?
> ***************************************************************
> 

----------------Message-boundary

From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: copyright letters
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 15:22:08 -0500
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Mailer: Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44

I happen to agree...I am getting rather tired of reading emails about
copyrights.  I know we all have ideas on many different subjects, but I
really wanted to be on a list about Mandy.  I don't mind different
subjects, but think when one is being beaten into the ground, that it is
about time to end it and go on to something else - like MANDY!!

Just my opinion......

Jill
  

Use what talents you possess.  The woods would be very silent if no birds
sang except those that sang best.

                                                                          
 Henry Van Dyke


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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: copyright
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:32:18 -0500
Errors-to: 
Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: 
MIME-Version: 1.0
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I have had this discussion on numerous lists many times -- mostly on lists
where people "snag" or "snatch" art to use as Outlook Express stationery,
crafts, etc.   They share the art the take from web sites.  Some of it is in
the "public domain."  Other pieces are clearly marked with copyrights (which
are sometimes removed so that you wind up believing tha the stuff is in the
public domain).  Still other pieces are marked in such a way that it is
clear that the creator expects it to be taken and is using it to draw people
to a web site.  And so on.

I have learned that there are two points of view:  one is that it is okay to
take this art, especially for "personal use" (that is, not to attempt to
make money from it), the other is that it is not okay to take it (since
scanning and submitting a greeting card, for example, in effect "steals" it
from the copyright holder who wants to sell it to all the people you are
giving it to on line).

It is almost a religious issue -- people either believe that "information is
free" or they do not.  I've yet to see anyone change a point of view on this
and have given up the discussion.

Personally, I only post things I make or things I know are in the public
domain.  In terms of Mandy art and CH, and such, it does seem to me that
certain photos are intended as publicity photos and others perhaps are
private, family pictures.  I haven't even thought through this kind of
thing.  Who owns the publicity photo?  The photographer?  Probably certain
rights to use it were sold to Mandy or the holding company or whomever.  But
the photographer may well own certain rights to reproduce it.  Permissions
can almost always be sought if there is concern.

I guess.

----- Original Message -----
From: Dianne Smith 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:13 PM
Subject: Re: copyright


All I can say is that most of the people I work with who create intellectual
property are very protective of that property. What I create, whether it is
a news story, feature article, photograph, or whatever is mine, and unless I
sign my ownership away, I have the right to determine how it is used.

Most professional photographers sell their photographs for money. That is
how they make a living. Sometimes they sell the right to the photo for a
one-time only use and they retain the rights to the photo. When someone
takes that photo and uses it without permission, he/she diminishes the value
of the work. I don't think *most* copyright holders take too kindly to that.
Now, if the photographer signs away all rights, and the new owner tells you
that you can use it, you've got every right to do so. If a "star" buys the
rights to all photos and articles about him or her and says "Do whatever you
want with these," then you certainly have that right.

But then I'm speaking from the point of view of someone who works with this
kind of stuff all the time, not a fan. So I could be wrong. ;-)
--
Dianne Smith, CJE
Bear Facts adviser
Alief Hastings High School
4410 Cook Road
Houston, TX 77072
(281)498-8110, ext. 2461

Bear Facts online edition: http://www.highwired.com/Alief/bearfacts

For Journalism Teachers Only: http://jteacher.com

Texas Association of Journalism Educators: http://members.xoom.com/TAJE

Online Classroom: http://www.highwired.com/Alief/JIsmith

----------
>From: 
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: copyright
>Date: Wed, Dec 1, 1999, 14:31
>

> In a message dated 11/30/99 3:22:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [email protected] writes:
>
> << And if a copyright holder does decide to stop it, all they have to do is
> tell someone to stop doing it ("cease and desist order"). No one is going to
> be dragged off to court and sued for millions of dollars, unless they don't
> stop it *after* being told to. >>
>
> Actually, a cease and desist order would only be issued *after* someone was
> taken to court. I believe you're talking about what is commonly called a
> "demand letter" (at least around here) -- i.e., a written communique
> demanding that the addressee either (1) do something they haven't been doing
> and should have [such as pay a bill], or (2) stop doing something they
> shouldn't be doing [such as using copyrighted information without
permission].
>
> A cease and desist order might also be called a temporary restraining order
> (which might later become a permanent injunction, if it went that far).
>
> Sorry. I just *had* to strut my legal stuff there for a minute. It was a
> rough weekend.
>
> Bev
> FEB; XFW#2001; SAA; NRMTPB; SAMC(TINC)
> ***************************************************************
> What if the Hokey Pokey really *is* what it's all about?
> ***************************************************************
>


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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: about Channukah
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 12:51:49 PST
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Sender: [email protected]
X-listname: 
Comments: Originally To: [email protected]
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X-Mailer: Mercury MTS (Bindery) v1.44

hi Sue!!!
yes I got the channukah, u didnt got my anwer???????
so its on the 4 of December (my birthday!!!!)
I now that on this Channukah I will have to do a lot of home work but belife 
(sp) me I am going to have some fun on this holiday...
hope u will too.
If  u have any thing to ask me about that just wite me ok?
talk to u soon Meytal.


>From: [email protected]
>To: "meytal & ido shpindel" 
>Subject: Re: happy birthday
>Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 10:29:37 +1100
>
>Hi Meytal,
>
> >well it so nice to know that in very far way place there is someone that
> >have birthday on the same date
> >well heppy birthday to your son too
>
>Thank you. Too bad I couldn't have had him just 4 days earlier! But in 1988
>I hadn't yet 'found' Mandy! That seems "inconceivable" to me now - as I
>feel I've loved him forever. The day that changed my life was sometime in
>early 1994, when he ran onto the David Letterman show with Tony Randall
>[real name Leonard Greenberg(?) (it's Green)] and sang 
>Rock-a-bye.
>
>BTW, did you get my email to you asking when Channukah was - etc, etc, etc?
>
>Best wishes,
>Sue
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: What does Katheryn Grody look like?
Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 16:13:36 EST
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Hello List:

I have a question that perhaps someone might answer for me.  I am new to 
Mandy but I would like to know a bit about his wife Kathryn Grody.  I cannot 
seem to imagine what she looks like and cannot find a photo of her anywhere 
that looks like anything.  If you have any information, please reply.

Thanks

Laura K.

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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: What does Katheryn Grody look like?
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 16:39:39 -0500
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X-listname: 
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At 04:13 PM 12/1/99 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>I have a question that perhaps someone might answer for me.  I am new to 
>Mandy but I would like to know a bit about his wife Kathryn Grody.  I cannot 
>seem to imagine what she looks like and cannot find a photo of her anywhere 
>that looks like anything. 

There are a couple of candid photos of Kathryn here:
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/Stage/3389/belasco.htm

These were taken last November outside the Belasco Theatre in NYC.  They'll
give you an idea of what she looks like, although she's really more
attractive in person than in the photos.  

I also have a couple of magazine photos of Mandy and Kathryn somewhere.  I
don't think they're on my site, but I can scan them and send them to you if
you'd like.

-Char

***************************************************************
   Mandy Patinkin - High Flying Adored
   http://home.att.net/~mosert/char/mandy.htm
***************************************************************


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From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: What does Katheryn Grody look like?
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 13:41:49 PST
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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this pic is taken from Phantm's site.

Poutchy


----Original Message Follows----
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Subject: What does Katheryn Grody look like?
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Message-ID: 

Hello List:

I have a question that perhaps someone might answer for me.  I am new to
Mandy but I would like to know a bit about his wife Kathryn Grody.  I cannot
seem to imagine what she looks like and cannot find a photo of her anywhere
that looks like anything.  If you have any information, please reply.

Thanks

Laura K.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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